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 Avid Reader Book Club -  Water for Elephants Discussionnotify me whenever anyone posts in this discussionSubscribe  
 
From: HeatherB  Staff 1/29/2008 8:56 am 
To: ALL  (1 of 32) 
 16562.1 

So I am halfway through Water for Elephants and I can't put it down. I'm reading it between breaks at work or while I'm waiting for meetings. I'm reading it during lunch, on the bus, while I'm waiting for the bus and whenever I have the slightest break.

I'm going to dive right in with some of the questions posted on the reading guide.

How does everyone feel about the juxtaposition between the old Jacob and the young Jacob? What do you feel you learn about the old Jacob from his life in the Circus?

For myself, this story brings to light something that I've often thought about. I think that often older people are forgotten and that younger generations feel that their stories are no longer interesting. I beg to differ, however, in that the older generations have so much more to offer than any young fad out there. I love listening to my grandmother's stories as, not only are they interesting, but it's important to understand her amazing contributions that has made such a big impact on my life. I find that Jacob's story is incredibly interesting, fictional or not, and I wonder if his children ever asked him about it?

 
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From: ozma  1/29/2008 2:26 pm 
To: HeatherB  (2 of 32) 
 16562.2 in reply to 16562.1 
Maybe they took the circus and animal stories for granted since that was a part of their childhood for a few years. The children are getting older themselves and don't seem to be at all interested in Jacob's stories. I loved this book.
 
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From: sandiedax  1/29/2008 11:12 pm 
To: ozma  (3 of 32) 
 16562.3 in reply to 16562.2 

I am on page 149 right now and I too have trouble putting this book down ;-) Unfortunatly I don't have a lot of time to read right now and I read slowly. Not a good combination with a book like this.

I enjoy the back and forth between young and old Jacob. I was hooked from the beginning and liked Jacob right away.

I do agree that people have a tendency to dismiss older people and I think it's a shame. My own father was 50 when they had me, and when I was a teenager I used to love listening to his stories and he had quite a few interesting ones. Sometimes I could listen to the same stories several times. Unfortunatly my father died when I was 17, otherwise I would still be listening to his stories today.

My point is that not a lot of people take the time for the "little things" anymore; like listenings to old peoples stories. I think that's a shame, and when I read about old Jacob it makes me sad that a man who has seen and done so much, and is basically still so vital and clear-minded, has to live with a bunch zoombies who can't chew their own food.

My thoughts so far, looking forward to the rest of the book.

 
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From: ozma  1/30/2008 2:16 am 
To: sandiedax unread  (4 of 32) 
 16562.4 in reply to 16562.3 
There was one nurse who spent time with Jacob, and she was a lifesaver for him. Not to put down Jacob at all, since I loved his character, I wonder if some of the other old people at the nursing home had great stories too. I'll be glad to know what you think of the ending. It came as a surprise to me, but I liked it. The author sees how old people are ignored a lot of the time, but she also sees glimmers of hope. I expected that this book would mostly be about animals in the circus, but it's a lot about relationships between people, too.
 
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From: B_C_Slug  1/30/2008 9:01 am 
To: HeatherB  (5 of 32) 
 16562.5 in reply to 16562.1 
I loved this book. I read it with an audio version which was great since the "old" Jacob and "young Jacob" are so starkly different in voices. It is at once jarring to hear the older Jacob's voice after a chapter of the young man's. The way that the author blended in the two worlds is very satisfying. The description the the circus train is wonderful as well as all of the activity of setting up the circus. This book gave me to impulse to rent the movie The Greatest Show On Earth which was in itself a wonderful chronicle of the circus in the earlier years of the Twentieth Century.
 
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From: HeatherB  Staff 1/30/2008 11:12 am 
To: B_C_Slug unread  (6 of 32) 
 16562.6 in reply to 16562.5 

Ooo, I bet the audio version is good.

I have finished the book. I started on Sunday (I know a week late!), but couldn't put it down. Last night as I knew I wouldn't be able to sleep until I finished it. I don't know what time I finally went to bed because I refused to look at the clock.

I was wondering what the ending would be, and it's was good. The writing was very beautiful as love and bond between Jacob and Marlena grew. I had figured out who killed August before the end and it was really a fitting end.

I agree with sandiedax that often older people are forgotten and that as we as a culture more ever more perilously towards the road of instant gratification and fast media clips we often forget the lessons and stories that are way more important. I love listening to my grandma talk about her life as a Shakespearean actress. Her stories of acting with Sir Lawrence Olivier, showing me old black and white photos. What our ancestors did has ultimately shaped this world and it's so important to recognize their contributions.

 
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From: dominique99  2/2/2008 12:57 pm 
To: ALL  (7 of 32) 
 16562.7 in reply to 16562.6 

I thouroughly enjoyed how the ending tied everything together. How Jacob began his adult life by running away with a circus and was reaching the end of his adult life and making another attempt to run away and join the circus. He was really inspiring.

 
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From: mekki  2/2/2008 5:33 pm 
To: HeatherB  (8 of 32) 
 16562.8 in reply to 16562.1 

Hi Heather, and all!  I read Water for Elephants a few months back with a local book club, and it was well received by our group.  I loved the wasy the author used Jacob "old and young."  In today's society I think all of us can use a reminder of what the elder generation has to offer us.  We are kept so separate from them the way our society is structured now. 

I am an RN, and I used to enjoy the stories my elderly pts would tell me.  Often with very little prompting.  I always wished I had time to prompt those who were a little more reticent.

I also truly enjoyed the depiction of the RN who was so kind and attentive to Jacob in his residence. 

I have not participated very many times in this group.  But I love the idea, and would probably paricipate more if the books were more frequent, and with a longer lead time as suggested by another participant. 

Thank you!

 
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From: fionaw  2/3/2008 6:01 am 
To: HeatherB  (9 of 32) 
 16562.9 in reply to 16562.6 

I've also just finished the book and enjoyed it, it raises lots of issues about the importance of the individual's contribution not just on a local level but to history in general. I think it's only just being recognised  that history is not just about dates and big events but about the stories of the individuals who lived through that time or event. That's why it's so important that books like this are well researched (as this one is). 

 I agree with what's been said about the role of the elderly in our society, I think the author makes a very valuable point about how younger people view the elderly and just see the external signs of aging and how the elderly view themselves, essentially a young person in an older person's body and how frustrating that must be. It's a clever devise to tell Jacob's story though his memories as this is often just the way elderly people in his situation think - as he himself says there's only so much you can discuss about last night's dinner. Maybe this highlights some of the failings in certain institutions that look after the elderly that they fail to see the eldery as individuals with individual needs and that their success or failure may rely on a few thoughtful and kind nurses/carers.

I didn't find the ending fitted with the rest of the book - it was very  'nice' but after such a hard hitting and gritty account it seemed that the author just ran out of steam and put in a happy ending to cheer herself and all of us up! 

The book also raises big questions about the history of the time which I'm sorry to say I'm fairly ignorant of like why did the depression happened, why was there prohibition, how did people get away with 'red lighting'.

There's so much in this book I'm sure there will be lots more discussion about it. 

 
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From: HeatherB  Staff 2/4/2008 3:04 pm 
To: fionaw  (10 of 32) 
 16562.10 in reply to 16562.9 

While I agree that the ending was perhaps more "Hollywoodish" than it could have been, I think it's always harder to write a happy ending than a bad ending. From my own limited writing experience, writing about the bad is invariably easier than writing about the good. It's hard to write about good that does not seem trite or predictable. I remember reading a piece in one of my writing classes that said there's only 7 possible endings to a book. That leaves the possibilities rather small.

I didn't get a feeling of doom from the book, which was rather unexpected. It was essentially a love story I think, which I enjoyed. I think what always bothers me with typical love story books is that I always wonder what happens after the romance and being "in love" phase changes to something different. It doesn't necessarily die out, but there's always challenges a couple must face throughout their lives, not just in the very beginning. Perhaps that is a topic for another book altogether though.

Thoughts?

 
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From: Optimystic  2/9/2008 12:56 am 
To: mekki unread  (11 of 32) 
 16562.11 in reply to 16562.8 

I'm new and 'happen' to be reading this. So many 'happens'. I 'happened' to get a weird neuro disorder and 'happened' to get put into a nursing home at 42 y/o for nearly a year!!!!! AAAGGH!! Horrid institutions is my judgment.

I could totally relate to Jacob's desire for real food. I tell you, nurses like the one in the book can totally make the difference!! I got out 6 yrs. ago & am still friends with some of the people who cared for me.

Our culture doesn't value and honor elders like so many cultures did/do. I feel marketing and economics has taken hold relinquishing the concept of elder to old... to disposable, dispensable, worn out, torn up, broken, devalued.... It is a very sorry state of affairs but seldom do we look to elders with interest, reverence and respect like we used to.

 
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From: fionaw  2/9/2008 8:30 am 
To: HeatherB  (12 of 32) 
 16562.12 in reply to 16562.10 

I entirely take the point about happy endings and I do actually like them - so many books do seem to have sad ones, as you say if they're easier to write maybe that's why?  I just felt a little let down by this one - I think it could have still been happy but maybe just tempered a bit to make it more beliveable. The chap at the end running the circus seemed a little too eager to take on someone he didn't know and wouldn't have a clue how much care he would need, to 'run away with the circus' again. Maybe it's just me being cynical.

Very interesting point about seeing the book as mainly a love story, I felt it was more a social narrative of the time and the circus life and that the love story was for me a small part of it with the relationships between the men, the animals and the circus making up the majority. Isn't it great how we all take something different from the same book!

 
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From: allegria_joy  2/10/2008 9:26 pm 
To: HeatherB  (13 of 32) 
 16562.13 in reply to 16562.1 

My main problem with the switching back and forth is that I get tied up in one world and then get slammed into the other...leaving part of me always hanging. Which I suppose is good and keeps the pages turning!

Our library copies are all checked out, so I've been sneaking into a local bookstore to read when I get a chance (not having the money to spend on new books right now.) I'm halfway through and HATE not having a copy at my apartment!

Jacob's love for the animals - and for human animals - is really beautiful; having something to throw himself into so soon after his parents' passing may well have saved his life...but I must say, I've always been scared to death of circuses, and the last two media exposures I've had to them (Neil Gaiman's/Jim Henson's movie Mirrormask and now Water For Elephants) don't make them any more attractive. Harsh, false, brutal worlds, they seem.

 


allegria_joy

 
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From: HeatherB  Staff 2/12/2008 9:32 am 
To: allegria_joy  (14 of 32) 
 16562.14 in reply to 16562.13 

Yes I do agree with you about circuses. They have never held any mystery and appeal to me. Perhaps this is because, after working in a vet clinic and understanding more about animals, I always feel bad for the animals. The elephants and lions so far away from their natural habitat makes me sick. Then again, I guess I have never been one to gawk at the unknown and different.

I think the only circus that I have enjoyed watching is Cirque du Soleil and I can't really classify them as a Classic circus.

A question from the reading guide gave me pause for thought -- how does Gruen contrast the worlds of reality and illusion in the book? The switching back and forth between the different views was in itself a contrast, but which one is the illusion and which one the reality I'm not sure. I like to think that the story is the reality and that Jacob in a nursing home is the illusion.

I also thought it was interesting that Jacob's nemesis in the nursing home had the illusion that he carried water for elephants. Could it be possible that Jacob has also had an enhanced illusion of his life? I like to think not, because the story is so spectacular it should be real.

 
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From: ozma  2/12/2008 4:22 pm 
To: HeatherB  (15 of 32) 
 16562.15 in reply to 16562.14 
When I read the question about illusion and reality, I thought that the illusion was what the circus looked like to the customers, who didn't know the gritty reality behind the glamour of the show. I don't think that Jacob puffed up his past. He kept a lot of it to himself most of the time. He didn't brag about it and try to impress people.
 
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From: HeatherB  Staff 2/14/2008 1:57 pm 
To: ozma  (16 of 32) 
 16562.16 in reply to 16562.15 
Yes that's a good point. I do agree that the reality of the circus is much different than the illusion that was portrayed to the people who came to watch the acts. I think it's interesting how many different illusions were in the book.
 
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From: allegria_joy  2/14/2008 10:42 pm 
To: HeatherB  (17 of 32) 
 16562.17 in reply to 16562.14 

I finished the book, so there may be spoilers in this comment...

Is a spectacle spectacular with nobody to see it? I think Jacob's telling of his story to the man (and its reception as valued truth) at the end is important. So is Rosemary seeing Jacob as a real person, more than a decrepit body. So is Jacob seeing the real wrongness of the way the Benzini Bros. circus was run. These people not only see reality, they take action accordingly...and thereby validate the truth of what they see.

 


allegria_joy

 
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From: ozma  2/15/2008 4:12 pm 
To: HeatherB  (18 of 32) 
 16562.18 in reply to 16562.16 
I just read Sara Gruen's Riding Lessons since I liked Water for Elephants so much. It was very different, but I liked it a lot. I was reading it on the train one night and almost read through my stop. There's one other book about people and horses by her that I'll read soon.
 
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From: pagegirl  2/16/2008 6:12 pm 
To: mekki unread  (19 of 32) 
 16562.19 in reply to 16562.8 
I agree that the RN made a real difference in Jacob's otherwise mundane life.  Physical deterioration is often associated ,incorrectly, with mental deterioration.  All it takes is a keen interest in an older person to discover a fascinating life. 
 
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From: HeatherB  Staff 2/18/2008 10:06 am 
To: pagegirl unread  (20 of 32) 
 16562.20 in reply to 16562.19 

I also agree that Rosemary made a difference and actually saw who Jacob is.

Did anyone think it a funny image of Jacob and Marlena going around the country with an elephant? I smile when I think of this image. Imagine trying to buy a house with some land and instead of asking how much room there is for dogs or cows or horses, how much room there is to board an elephant.

 
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